Posts Tagged ‘ndb’
Barn Door Wide!
Alfred Morgan 1 Tube Regen courtesy: KC9KEP |
The next CLE event will be the "Barn Door" listening activity which requires listeners to use receivers without the usual narrow filters. Some of the older tube radios can do this easily as can most homebrew receivers ... especially the regens!
If you've never listened to the NDB band with a wide bandwidth, it is a fascinating experience! If conditions are normal, you can typically hear a half dozen or more signals, all at various pitches, vying for your attention. It's almost as if you have plunked yourself down in the middle of the NDB forest of signals, and they are coming at you from all directions.
Many choose to use one of their homebrew receivers for this event, often as simple as a '1AD' or a '1 Active Device' circuit. A recent posting to the ndblist group from CLE organizer Brian Keyte (G3SIA), described just how much fun can be derived from such a simple radio. I'll let Brian's words speak for themselves below:
Recently I've had a few requests to provide details of my 1-transistor receiver, as used on my recent Scotland holiday and back in April 2009 for our first CLE for simple receivers. (There's still time to try making something for our next CLE145).
Here goes:
In March 2009 I was tempted to try following in the footsteps of Mike Tuggle and Finbar to see if I, as a complete D-I-Y beginner, could make a very simple 1-transistor NDB receiver. The story of making and using my own '1AD' (single active device) may help anyone also wondering whether to try some simple D-I-Y construction for CLE145, our second Listening Event for basic receivers.
I started by rounding up some likely old radios and a TV from my junk box and tried to see what I had in them that might be useful for a 1-transistor regen. receiver. From a list of the transistor types that I'd found, Mike identified a BF362 as probably the only suitable one. It is a 'normal' N-P-N silicon transistor (a BJT - bipolar junction transistor - as opposed to a field effect transistor like the MOSFETs) and is intended for low power high frequency applications. My background in making anything using transistors was just about nil and I knew almost nothing about them. The first challenge was removing the BF362 from its circuit board (a small board designed to amplify incoming UHF TV signals). Trying to play safe, I sawed round a big chunk of the actual board having snipped off most of the other components. A bit of brute force was needed as well as the hacksaw. Tests with a meter then showed that I should be able to solder to Collector, Base and Emitter without overheating the transistor. (Google helped when I entered ' BF362 data sheet ').
From the discarded MW / LW receivers there were several 2-gang variable capacitors and their tuning coils wound on ferrite rods - and of course lots of fixed capacitors and resistors. Many years ago a friend had passed to me the result of his construction of a basic amateur receiver (Heathkit RA1). That was useful because of the lack of a circuit board - the components were just soldered to lugs, most with still usefully-long wires. It also had a full list of parts and simple advice on construction. One of the old portable receivers I'd found had a plastic case that looked suitable for housing things (about the right size and shape, easy to drill, etc.).
First I tried a lash-up of the basic components on-the-bench (i.e. on the dining room table!) using the simplest transistor circuit without any regen. Trying my normal aerials, including a 100 metre long wire, I could weakly hear a few broadcast stations in the LF part of the MW band. Complete silence where there should have been NDBs - and my nearest, 316 EPM, is only 5 km away. When I tried adding regen. it proved to be an uncontrollable beast - stray capacitance effects due to all the loose connecting wires, etc. (I had made no use of a soldering iron yet!).
It seemed there was nothing for it but to start mounting the main components in the case - something I had wanted to do only after getting some real results. I had to try and guess where to site the components for likely best performance, ease of operation, etc. With no metal casing, it seemed to be a good idea to put a grounded copper wire as a 'busbar' round part of the case. That might help reduce any hand capacity effects and it would be useful for making the several ground connections including the '-' side of the little PP3 9v battery. Where possible the metal cases of the potentiometers were grounded to it too.
I had only just started fixing components in the case when Sue and I needed to move up to Lincolnshire for 5 days. That turned out to be good, as I would be well away from temptations to continue the component searches for 'something a bit better' and I could concentrate on what should be the fun part. There was a good ground connection there but I was limited to a 30 metre long wire aerial. With regen. working, that proved to be long enough to get some results from Broadcast stations, though still not loud. I was making slow progress by trying out different component values etc. and by the time came to come back home I had only heard TWO beacons. One, 338 FNY Doncaster/Sheffield International (Robin Hood Airport), only 15 miles away, was faint but fairly easy to find. The other, 365 KIM Humberside and also about 15 miles away was very faint and I only managed to hear it once. Listening during the evenings didn't add any more NDB loggings at all. I was very disappointed and ready to give up the project, but Sue reminded me I had said that if I heard just one NDB during the 5 days I would consider it a success!
Returning to Surrey my luck changed. Without making any alterations, I tried the set using my 100 metre long wire - and it was transformed! During a few minutes at dusk I heard about 25 beacons, mostly weak but clear - the 30 metre aerial in Lincolnshire must have been the problem. Listening briefly again later that evening, several European countries were there - and to my surprise I suddenly stumbled on OZN 372 (Greenland) among the loudest and clearest. That made me wonder if a Canadian beacon was possible, so I tried for DF 350 more or less at random as one of the more likely ones. Setting the receiver to 350 kHz could be difficult with no frequency markings yet, but then I noticed that it would be halfway between my locals FOS 348 and WOD 352, both of whose idents could be heard at the same time. But no luck!
Then, at about 01.15 and just before bed, I tried again. After a minute or two there appeared a weak intermittent carrier and then - sure enough - about 5 cycles of a definite 'DF' before it faded and was gone. Can you imagine my delight? Ten days after starting as a complete D-I-Y beginner, a 1-transistor device made entirely of a few junk box components was getting me Deer Lake, almost 4,000 km away (2,500 miles) in Newfoundland. After that I thought the set justified having a name, so it was christened 'Max' (contradicting its minimal design!).
The next morning I took Max to try it out when genuinely portable using a long fence not far from here. Midday conditions this time but, with the necessary short aluminium rod pushed into the ground, it gave around 25 beacons in about 10 minutes, including Wales, Belgium, Guernsey and France. Another advantage of a simple portable receiver - there are lots of places with very long ungrounded wire fences that I've noted on our walks. Then at the end of the month Sue and I had a week's holiday at a self-catering cottage on the Isles of Scilly, 50 km into the Atlantic off the far South-West of England. Travelling by train and ship (no car), my AR7030 receiver and power supply couldn't make it into my rucksack but Max did, a fraction of the weight, together with about 100 metres of light wire to drape on the hedgerows beside the cottage. Listening mainly at daytime I heard over 100 NDBs. Again, the signals were mostly quite weak, but crystal clear.
Back home I made a few overdue improvements - replacing most of the remaining twisted wires with soldered connections, fitting a terminal block for the aerial and earth, adding a little switch to select one or both of the capacitor gangs and changing connections in the output transformer giving a considerable increase in volume. I had wondered whether my reception of DF had really happened, despite the detailed notes that I had made at the time. Then early one morning there was DF again, much louder than before and it persisted for several minutes.
I used the set of course for our first 'Barn Door' listening event for basic receivers, CLE116, during Easter weekend 2009. I chose to listen only within two hours of midday using a long wire or one of my fixed passive loops and I just managed to reach 100 NDBs. 14 of the loggings were of beacons over 400 km away.
In June this year, with CLE145 coming at the end of July, Max needed to be re-awakened and tested before taking it with us to Scotland. It had always suffered a little from hand capacity effects - touching some parts caused minor changes in frequency, as did the aerial being blown about by strong winds, etc. I discovered that one of my old PC keyboards had a big metalised screen under the keys. This cured all those problems merely by placing it (fixed with rubber bands!) over the front of the receiver. It also stops an occasional 'fizzing' kind of interference if I slide the first few inches of the headphone lead under the rubber band to hold it against the screen (see picture). I assume that problem was caused by some kind of RF getting through to the 'phones.
The attached pictures show Max's front view, the inside view with the back cover unscrewed and the circuit diagram.
In the front view the main tuning knob is at the top right hand side, still with primitive frequency markings on it! (35 = 350 kHz, etc.).
The regen. control is just visible at the bottom left hand side.
The top right hand switch extends the tuning range below 300 kHz by adding the second half of the variable capacitor.
(The top central switch is a refinement that allows the tuning to cover just the Medium Wave broadcast stations by using a different winding).
In the inside view, the main components are:
The transistor on its hacked bit of white circuit board which can be seen centre right.
The windings on the ferrite rod at the top are, left to right, the original main tuning coils, aerial coupling and the regen. coil.
The bottom right potentiometer is the regen. control.
The 'floating' pot. is the base bias control.
The large top left knob is main tuning, (I tried adding a fine tuning capacitor in parallel, but it added operating complication without any advantage and I removed it)
The bottom left pot. (still as in the original set) is spare, but it incorporates the battery ON/OFF switch.
The battery, wrapped in plastic in case it shorts things, can be changed using the hinged flap.
(However the battery drain is about 1 mA, so the battery would last for many months if I listened for an hour every day!)
The output matching transformer is next to the battery.
As you can see, my approach has been very 'Heath Robinson' and a real hit-and-miss affair, so don't put much reliance on it. The set does work pretty well, but I'm sure circuit design experts will see lots of things than could be improved - and not just the quality of the soldering! Others are likely to use different transistor types and component values and some connections may be different. A MOSFET would be expected to perform better.
In case you haven't used a regeneration set before, the regen. control allows feedback of some of the RF signal to the main tuning circuit. As the regen. knob is increased from zero it increases the apparent signal strength considerably. Broadcast stations get much louder and a very local NDB would just be heard from its audio ident (a 400 Hz or 1020 Hz Morse tone). Turning the regeneration control up further continues to increase the signal strengths until suddenly beat notes start to be heard when you tune across any carriers. Now you hear the NDB signals much as 'real' receivers would when using their CW setting and no filter (or a very wide one).
The regen. could be increased even further, but eventually the set starts to fizz or wail loudly and becomes a 'dirty' transmitter - not useful!
If you have read as far as this you must have already built a simple set or are at least a bit tempted to!
If you have a little spare time, do give it a try. It really is a fun project and when you start to get results it is like reliving all over again those early days when you were delighted by your first DX loggings - only this is even more satisfying!
I'm grateful to Mike and Finbar for their encouragement and suggestions. I sent details of their sets to the List on 10th June in my email introducing the 'Barn Door CLE145' in late July. It would be good to hear details from any others with working sets or who are well on their way to having them.
Good listening!
Brian
Now if this is something that might interest you, filling a log page of NDBs heard on your own little creation, then there is still plenty of time to whip something together. If you prefer 'modern', then Mike and Brian's circuits might be a good place to begin experimenting or you could just grab one of your old Handbooks and check out the simple regenerative circuits described ... from the '30s on up! Just beef up the L and C values enough to get you down below the broadcast band and you're in business.
There is also a ton of stuff on the web via the vintage magazine and book collection available at the American Radio History website here, with enough info to keep you at the workbench for a long time.
courtesy: American Radio History |
Here is the CLE info, direct from Brian:
Our 233rd Coordinated Listening Event is only just over, but Joachim and I
want to tell you a little about something special coming for our next CLE,
27th - 30th July.
For CLE234 we’ll have one of our occasional ‘Barn Door’ CLEs.
It will be an opportunity to bring back to life basic kinds of receiver -
anything with low selectivity which allows you to hear NDBs on several
frequencies simultaneously – “leaving the barn door wide open!”.
Our last Barn Door CLE was No. 209 in July two years ago.
Listening with 'back to basics' equipment often gives very satisfying and
unexpected results. It can also show us ways of improving our listening
when operating more normally.
To take part, you could use any one of the following:
1. A simple home-made receiver, such as a single transistor set with regen.
(e.g. based on the sets used by Mike Tuggle, Finbar and others).
2. OR - an ultralight receiver (maybe one converted to cover the NDB
frequencies with a modified aerial).
3. OR - an 'antique' receiver brought back to life (e.g. Scott,
Eddystone, R1155, etc.). Most of those are anything but ultralight!
4. OR - a normal receiver but with NO filtering, or using a WIDE FILTER,
(not less than about 2 kHz and with no selection of an audio filter).
Your 'barn door' should be open wide enough for you to hear any NDBs
on at least five adjacent frequencies all at the same time - E.g. NDBs on
348, 349, 350, 351 and 352 kHz with the receiver set to 350 kHz.
Listening to one NDB and ignoring several others of different pitch can be
quite a challenge - but it is very satisfying when you find how quickly it
becomes easier to do.
It may take a while to prepare for some of those ways of listening,
especially the first - hence this ‘Early Warning’!
The attached guide *** (click here) from the past by Mike Tuggle may help you if you are thinking of using a basic D-I-Y receiver.
The ‘Early Advice’ and ‘Final Details’ for the CLE will follow about 9 days
and 6 days before the event, earlier than usual to help you to get ready.
Good Listening!
Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian Keyte G3SIA ndbcle'at'gmail.com
Location: Surrey, SE England (CLE coordinator)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hunting For NDBs In CLE 233
YLD - 335kHz courtesy: http://www.ve3gop.com/ |
This coming weekend will see another monthly CLE challenge. This time the hunting grounds will be 335.0 - 349.9 kHz.
For those unfamiliar with this monthly activity, a 'CLE' is a 'Co-ordinated Listening Event', as NDB DXers around the world focus their listening time on one small slice of the NDB spectrum.
A nice challenge in this one is to hear YLD - 335, located in Chapleau, Ontario.
'YLD' runs just 100W into a 100' vertical but is well-heard throughout North America and many parts of Europe under the right conditions. Listen for its upper-sideband CW identifier (with your receiver in the CW mode) on 335.415 kHz.
Summer lightning storms may provide additional listening challenges but today's lightning map of North America looks surprisingly quiet ... maybe we will get lucky. It can't however, be any worse than last month's CLE, where widespread lightning was reported by almost every participant.!
courtesy: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html |
If you are interested in building a system for the new (U.S.) 630m band, the CLE will give you the chance to test out your MF receiving capabilities and compare against what others in your area might be hearing.
When tuning for NDBs, put your receiver in the CW mode and listen for the NDB's CW identifier, repeated every few seconds. Listen for U.S. NDB identifiers approximately 1 kHz higher or lower than the published transmitted frequency since these beacons are modulated with a 1020 Hz tone approximately.
For example, 'AA' near Fargo, ND, transmits on 365 kHz and its upper sideband CW identifier is tuned at 366.025 kHz while its lower sideband CW ident can be tuned at 363.946 kHz. Its USB tone is actually 1025 Hz while its LSB tone is 1054 Hz.
Often, one sideband will be much stronger than the other so if you don't hear the first one, try listening on the other sideband.
Canadian NDBs normally have an USB tone only, usually very close to 400 Hz. They also have a long dash (keydown) following the CW identifier.
All NDBs heard in North America will be listed in the RNA database (updated daily) while those heard in Europe may be found in the REU database. Beacons heard outside of these regions will be found in the RWW database.
From CLE organizer Brian Keyte, G3SIA, comes the details:
Hello all
Here are the full details for this weekend's co-ordinated listening event.
It is open to everyone including CLE new-comers:
Days: Friday 22 June - Monday 25 June
Times: Start and end at midday, your LOCAL time
Range: 335.0 - 349.9 kHz
Wherever you are, please join us and log the NDBs that you can positively
identify that are listed in this busy frequency range (it includes 335.0 kHz
but not 350 kHz) plus any UNIDs that you come across there.
Send your CLE log to the List, preferably as a plain text email
(not in an attachment) with "CLE233 - FINAL Logs" at the start of its
subject line.
Please show on EVERY LINE of your log:
# The date ( e.g. 2018-06-22 or just the day no. 22 ) and UTC
(the day changes at 00:00 UTC).
# kHz (the beacon's nominal published frequency, if you know it)
# The Call Ident.
Show those main items FIRST on each line, before other optional details
such as Location, Distance, Offsets, Cycle time, etc.
If you send any incomplete logs to the List during the event, please also
send your 'FINAL', complete one.
Please always make your log interesting to everyone by showing your
own location and brief details of the receiver and aerial(s), etc., that
you were using.
We will send the usual 'Any More Logs?' email at about 17:00 UTC on
Tuesday so that you can check that your log has been found OK.
Do make sure that your log has arrived on the List at the very latest
by 08:00 UTC on Wednesday 27th June.
We hope to complete making the combined results on that day.
You can check on all CLE-related information from the CLE Page
http://www.ndblist.info/cle.htm
It includes a link to seeklists for the Event from the Rxx Database.
Good listening
Brian
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian Keyte G3SIA ndbcle'at'gmail.com
Location: Surrey, SE England (CLE coordinator)
----------------------------------------------------------
(REMINDER: You could use any one remote receiver for your loggings,
stating the location and owner - with their permission if required.
A remote listener may NOT also use another receiver, whether local
or remote, to obtain further loggings for the same CLE).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
These listening events serve several purposes. They:
The Yahoo ndblist Group has been moved to Groups.io and The NDB List Group will now be found there! The very active group is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
You need not be an NDB List member to participate in the CLEs and all reports, no matter how small, are of much value to the organizers.
Remember - 'First-time' logs are always VERY welcome!
Reports may be sent to the NDB List Group or e-mailed to CLE co-ordinator, Brian Keyte (G3SIA), whose address appears above. If you are a member of the group, all final results will also be e-mailed and posted there.
Please ... give the CLE a try ... then let us know what NDB's can be heard from your location! Your report can then be added to the worldwide database to help keep it up-to-date.
Have fun and good hunting!
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are actually in service and on-the-air so the online database can be kept up-to-date
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are out-of-service or have gone silent since the last CLE covering this range
- will indicate the state of propagation conditions at the various participant locations
- will give you an indication of how well your LF/MF receiving system is working
- give participants a fun yet challenging activity to keep their listening skills honed
The Yahoo ndblist Group has been moved to Groups.io and The NDB List Group will now be found there! The very active group is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
You need not be an NDB List member to participate in the CLEs and all reports, no matter how small, are of much value to the organizers.
Remember - 'First-time' logs are always VERY welcome!
Reports may be sent to the NDB List Group or e-mailed to CLE co-ordinator, Brian Keyte (G3SIA), whose address appears above. If you are a member of the group, all final results will also be e-mailed and posted there.
Please ... give the CLE a try ... then let us know what NDB's can be heard from your location! Your report can then be added to the worldwide database to help keep it up-to-date.
Have fun and good hunting!
Evaluating Online SDRs For MW Capabilities
courtesy: https://sdr.hu/ |
In a previous blog I described the amazing KiwiSDR network of online receivers. A quick check of the network as I write today's blog shows that there are presently 207 active online receivers distributed throughout the world!
Over the past year, there has been a growing interest in using many of the online receivers during the monthly CLE NDB listening events, all focused on the medium frequency (MF) part off the spectrum just below the AM broadcast band. Some use the SDRs to search for unlogged beacons while others use them because their home locations have become too noisy to hear anything using their own radios, a growing problem for listeners everywhere.
One ardent NDB DXer, Dan Petersen, W7OIL, (located in Vancouver, WA) has become a regular Kiwi network user as well as a regular contributor to the very valuable RNA / REU / RWW list of worldwide beacon activity. Over the past year, Dan has been keeping careful notes on not only what he has been hearing but also on how well many of the online radios perform on the MF NDB band.
As it turns out, many receivers perform very well on the HF bands but are dreadfully inadequate when it comes to the medium wave frequencies. Many are plagued with high noise levels, switching power supply signals, intermod or inadequate antenna systems, making them unusable for weak signal DX work below the broadcast band.
Other receivers however, are superb performers, as evidenced by their quiet low noise locations and well engineered antennas, providing the ideal opportunity to conduct some serious medium wave weak signal detection.
Dan has now produced the start of an ongoing guide, mainly focusing on the various Kiwi Network receivers that he has tested, rating them with regard to sensitivity and local noise, when used in the 200 - 500 kHz range only.
His SDR EVALUATION LIST (in .pdf form) can be downloaded from here, and will be updated periodically, as other online receivers are evaluated.
If you are plagued with local noise on the MF band yet would like to do some weak signal DXing, especially during the monthly NDB CLE activities, the online SDRs may be of interest to you. With Dan's helpful groundwork already giving you a leg up, hopefully you can give them a try sometime soon!
*********************************
Speaking of monthly CLEs ... the recently completed weekend event (CLE232), was a rough one, with worldwide lightning noise as well as an active geomagnetic field hampering reception for all participants. In North America, all three nights were terribly noisy and propagation was poor.
As is so often the case, Friday night was the 'best' of the three nights but only 18 stations were heard here. My log is shown below.
It was nice to hear POA in Pahoa, Hawaii, still going strong as it is located close to the present volcanic eruptions.
All signals were heard on a Perseus SDR feeding an inverted-L antenna, resonated to 300kHz.
26 09:00 325.0 YJQ Bella Bella (Campbell Island), BC, CAN
26 09:00 326.0 YQK Kenora, ON, CAN
26 10:00 326.0 DC Princeton Municipal Apt, BC, CAN
26 06:00 328.0 YTL Big Trout Lake, ON, CAN
26 09:00 328.0 LAC 'Lacomas' Fort Lewis, WA, USA
26 09:00 328.0 5J Coronation, AB, CAN
26 06:00 329.0 YHN Hornepayne, ON, CAN
26 09:00 329.0 YEK Arviat, NU, CAN
26 09:00 329.0 X2 Athabasca, AB, CAN
26 10:00 329.0 PMV Plattsmouth, NE, USA
26 09:00 329.0 PJ Robinson (Whitehorse), YT, CAN
26 09:00 330.0 0O UNID, XUU
26 09:00 332.0 XT Terrace, BC, CAN
26 09:00 332.0 WC White Rock (Abbotsford), BC, CAN
26 10:00 332.0 VVV Ortonville Municipal Apt, MN, USA
27 09:00 332.0 VT Buffalo Narrows, SK, CAN
26 12:00 332.0 POA Pahoa - Hawaii Island, HWA
26 06:00 334.0 YER Fort Severn, ON, CAN
Hunting For NDBs In CLE 232
YEK - 329kHz courtesy: www.ve3gop.com/ |
This coming weekend will see another monthly CLE challenge. This time the hunting grounds will be 320.0 - 334.9 kHz.
For those unfamiliar with this monthly activity, a 'CLE' is a 'Co-ordinated Listening Event', as NDB DXers around the world focus their listening time on one small slice of the NDB spectrum.
A nice challenge in this one is to hear the Arviat NDB, located in Nunavut on the western shores of Hudson Bay.
'YEK', on 329 kHz runs 500W into a 100' vertical and it's well-heard throughout North America and many parts of Europe under the right conditions. Listen for its upper-sideband CW identifier (with your receiver in the CW mode) on 329.421 kHz.
Propagation has been very good on the MF band recently but at this time of the year, good listening is often hampered by a lot of lightning activity. Hopefully that will not be the case this coming weekend but today's map shows what we may be up against!
courtesy: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html |
If you are interested in building a system for the new (U.S.) 630m band, the CLE will give you the chance to test out your MF receiving capabilities and compare against what others in your area might be hearing.
When tuning for NDBs, put your receiver in the CW mode and listen for the NDB's CW identifier, repeated every few seconds. Listen for U.S. NDB identifiers approximately 1 kHz higher or lower than the published transmitted frequency since these beacons are modulated with a 1020 Hz tone approximately.
For example, 'AA' near Fargo, ND, transmits on 365 kHz and its upper sideband CW identifier is tuned at 366.025 kHz while its lower sideband CW ident can be tuned at 363.946 kHz. Its USB tone is actually 1025 Hz while its LSB tone is 1054 Hz.
Often, one sideband will be much stronger than the other so if you don't hear the first one, try listening on the other sideband.
Canadian NDBs normally have an USB tone only, usually very close to 400 Hz. They also have a long dash (keydown) following the CW identifier.
All NDBs heard in North America will be listed in the RNA database (updated daily) while those heard in Europe may be found in the REU database. Beacons heard outside of these regions will be found in the RWW database.
From CLE organizer Brian Keyte, G3SIA, comes the details:
Hello all
Our next Co-ordinated Listening Event is less than a week away.
It is an ideal one for new listeners as well as for regulars:
Days: Friday 25 May - Monday 28 May
Times: Start and End at midday, your LOCAL time
Range: 320.0 - 334.9 kHz
It's straightforward - just log the NDBs that you can identify having their
nominal frequencies in the range, plus any UNIDs that you come across
there. We last concentrated on these frequencies during CLE216 in
February 2017.
We'll be near the DGPS beacons range and some of us, especially in North
America, may hear a few, but please don't report them in this CLE.
73
Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian Keyte G3SIA ndbcle'at'gmail.com
Location: Surrey, SE England (CLE coordinator)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If you are interested in some remote listening - maybe due to local difficulties - you could use any one remote receiver for your loggings, stating its location and with the owner’s permission if required. A remote listener may NOT also use another receiver, local or remote, to make further loggings for the same CLE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
These listening events serve several purposes. They:
*** NEWS FLASH ***
The Yahoo ndblist Group has been moved to Groups.io and The NDB List Group will now be found there! The very active group is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
You need not be an NDB List member to participate in the CLEs and all reports, no matter how small, are of much value to the organizers.
Remember - 'First-time' logs are always VERY welcome!
Reports may be sent to the NDB List Group or e-mailed to CLE co-ordinator, Brian Keyte (G3SIA), whose address appears above. If you are a member of the group, all final results will also be e-mailed and posted there.
Please ... give the CLE a try ... then let us know what NDB's can be heard from your location! Your report can then be added to the worldwide database to help keep it up-to-date.
Have fun and good hunting!
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are actually in service and on-the-air so the online database can be kept up-to-date
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are out-of-service or have gone silent since the last CLE covering this range
- will indicate the state of propagation conditions at the various participant locations
- will give you an indication of how well your LF/MF receiving system is working
- give participants a fun yet challenging activity to keep their listening skills honed
*** NEWS FLASH ***
The Yahoo ndblist Group has been moved to Groups.io and The NDB List Group will now be found there! The very active group is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
You need not be an NDB List member to participate in the CLEs and all reports, no matter how small, are of much value to the organizers.
Remember - 'First-time' logs are always VERY welcome!
Reports may be sent to the NDB List Group or e-mailed to CLE co-ordinator, Brian Keyte (G3SIA), whose address appears above. If you are a member of the group, all final results will also be e-mailed and posted there.
Please ... give the CLE a try ... then let us know what NDB's can be heard from your location! Your report can then be added to the worldwide database to help keep it up-to-date.
Have fun and good hunting!
CLE 230 Results
Last weekend's CLE 230 overall results have now been tabulated. Reports from European NDB hunters and those from North America and the rest of the world may all be found here at the NDB List info website.
If you have joined the NDB List group, a copy of these will have already been sent to your mailbox.
It seems that compared to the last time these same frequencies were searched (CLE 213 Nov '16), my results were a little poorer, with 36 beacons heard this time versus 52 for the previous effort.
Propagation varied over the three night event depending upon what part of the world you were listening from and as usual, when there has been some recent coronal hole induced geomagnetic disturbance, the further away from the auroral zone you were, the better the prop seemed to be. The third and final night saw summer-like lightning noise for most North American listeners and the next several CLE weekends will be lucky to escape these rising levels until late in the fall ... but don't give up as there can be some great propagation in the summer and those quiet nights do come around when you least expect them.
In spite of the poor propagation here, there were some unusual quirks. Many of the 25 watt, normally easy NDBs from the central and southern states, were missing in action ... yet on all three nights, both FIS in Key West, Florida and SQT, up the coast on Florida's central eastern shoreline, were easy copy for several hours.
I can only guess that the reason for this is that both of these are 'big' beacons ... big antennas and power in the 300W plus class. They just managed to power through in spite of the poor propagation.
The other surprise was a loud signal on all three nights from FS in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, yet there was not even a hint of many of the other regular midwestern stations. Its reported 300W and 60' vertical is no doubt the reason.
How DD in Columbus, Ohio managed to sneek through is a bit of a mystery but it looks like her 50W and classic 'T' was enough to do the trick.
I managed only 36 stations but spent little time on Friday since conditions were truly dreadful.
25 04:00 240.0 BVS Burlington, WA, USA
25 08:00 241.0 YLL Lloydminster, AB, CAN
25 04:00 242.0 ZT Port Hardy, BC, CAN
25 04:00 242.0 XC Cranbrook, BC, CAN
25 07:00 244.0 TH Thompson, MB, CAN
25 05:00 245.0 YZE Gore Bay, ON, CAN
25 13:00 245.0 HNS Haines, ALS
25 06:00 245.0 FS Sioux Falls, SD, USA
25 08:00 245.0 CB Cambridge Bay, NU, CAN
25 08:00 245.0 AVQ Marana, AZ, USA
25 06:00 246.0 ZXJ Fort St. John, BC, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 ZZP Queen Charlotte Is, BC, CAN
25 04:00 248.0 WG Winnipeg, MB, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 QL Lethbridge, AB, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 QH Watson Lake, YT, CAN
25 09:00 248.0 PQF Mesquite, TX, USA
25 10:00 250.0 FO Flin Flon, MB, CAN
25 04:00 251.0 YCD Nanaimo, BC, CAN
25 11:00 251.0 OSE Bethel, ALS
25 04:00 251.0 AM Amarillo, TX, USA
25 07:00 253.0 GB Marshall, MN, USA
25 09:00 253.0 DD Commercial Point, OH, USA
25 09:00 254.0 ZYC Calgary, AB, CAN
25 09:00 254.0 SM Fort Smith, AB, CAN
25 09:00 254.0 EV Inuvik, NT, CAN
25 06:00 256.0 LSO Kelso, WA, USA
25 08:00 256.0 EB CFB Edmonton, AB, CAN
25 04:00 257.0 XE Saskatoon, SK, CAN
26 06:00 257.0 SQT Melbourne, FL, USA
25 04:00 257.0 LW Kelowna, BC, CAN
25 04:00 257.0 HCY Cowley, WY, USA
25 04:00 258.0 ZSJ Sandy Lake, ON, CAN
25 09:00 420.0 FQ East Chain, MN, USA
26 06:00 421.0 VLY McKenney, TX, USA
26 06:00 426.0 EN Council Bluffs, IA, USA
25 07:00 428.0 POH Pocahontas, IA, USA
As usual, my receiver of choice was the Perseus SDR in combination with my MF inverted-L, tuned to 300kHz.
The very active NDB Group.io List is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
If you have joined the NDB List group, a copy of these will have already been sent to your mailbox.
It seems that compared to the last time these same frequencies were searched (CLE 213 Nov '16), my results were a little poorer, with 36 beacons heard this time versus 52 for the previous effort.
Propagation varied over the three night event depending upon what part of the world you were listening from and as usual, when there has been some recent coronal hole induced geomagnetic disturbance, the further away from the auroral zone you were, the better the prop seemed to be. The third and final night saw summer-like lightning noise for most North American listeners and the next several CLE weekends will be lucky to escape these rising levels until late in the fall ... but don't give up as there can be some great propagation in the summer and those quiet nights do come around when you least expect them.
In spite of the poor propagation here, there were some unusual quirks. Many of the 25 watt, normally easy NDBs from the central and southern states, were missing in action ... yet on all three nights, both FIS in Key West, Florida and SQT, up the coast on Florida's central eastern shoreline, were easy copy for several hours.
I can only guess that the reason for this is that both of these are 'big' beacons ... big antennas and power in the 300W plus class. They just managed to power through in spite of the poor propagation.
FIS - 332 kHz Key West, Florida (aka: The 'Fish Hook' beacon) |
SQT - 257 kHz Melbourne, Florida |
The other surprise was a loud signal on all three nights from FS in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, yet there was not even a hint of many of the other regular midwestern stations. Its reported 300W and 60' vertical is no doubt the reason.
FS - 245 kHz Sioux Falls, South Dakota |
DD - 253 kHz Columbus Ohio |
I managed only 36 stations but spent little time on Friday since conditions were truly dreadful.
25 04:00 240.0 BVS Burlington, WA, USA
25 08:00 241.0 YLL Lloydminster, AB, CAN
25 04:00 242.0 ZT Port Hardy, BC, CAN
25 04:00 242.0 XC Cranbrook, BC, CAN
25 07:00 244.0 TH Thompson, MB, CAN
25 05:00 245.0 YZE Gore Bay, ON, CAN
25 13:00 245.0 HNS Haines, ALS
25 06:00 245.0 FS Sioux Falls, SD, USA
25 08:00 245.0 CB Cambridge Bay, NU, CAN
25 08:00 245.0 AVQ Marana, AZ, USA
25 06:00 246.0 ZXJ Fort St. John, BC, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 ZZP Queen Charlotte Is, BC, CAN
25 04:00 248.0 WG Winnipeg, MB, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 QL Lethbridge, AB, CAN
25 07:00 248.0 QH Watson Lake, YT, CAN
25 09:00 248.0 PQF Mesquite, TX, USA
25 10:00 250.0 FO Flin Flon, MB, CAN
25 04:00 251.0 YCD Nanaimo, BC, CAN
25 11:00 251.0 OSE Bethel, ALS
25 04:00 251.0 AM Amarillo, TX, USA
25 07:00 253.0 GB Marshall, MN, USA
25 09:00 253.0 DD Commercial Point, OH, USA
25 09:00 254.0 ZYC Calgary, AB, CAN
25 09:00 254.0 SM Fort Smith, AB, CAN
25 09:00 254.0 EV Inuvik, NT, CAN
25 06:00 256.0 LSO Kelso, WA, USA
25 08:00 256.0 EB CFB Edmonton, AB, CAN
25 04:00 257.0 XE Saskatoon, SK, CAN
26 06:00 257.0 SQT Melbourne, FL, USA
25 04:00 257.0 LW Kelowna, BC, CAN
25 04:00 257.0 HCY Cowley, WY, USA
25 04:00 258.0 ZSJ Sandy Lake, ON, CAN
25 09:00 420.0 FQ East Chain, MN, USA
26 06:00 421.0 VLY McKenney, TX, USA
26 06:00 426.0 EN Council Bluffs, IA, USA
25 07:00 428.0 POH Pocahontas, IA, USA
As usual, my receiver of choice was the Perseus SDR in combination with my MF inverted-L, tuned to 300kHz.
The very active NDB Group.io List is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
Hunting For NDBs In CLE 230
ZSJ - 258 courtesy: http://www.ve3gop.com/ |
This coming weekend will see another monthly CLE challenge. This time the hunting grounds will be: 240.0 - 259.9 kHz and 420.0 - 439.9 kHz.
For those unfamiliar with this monthly activity, a 'CLE' is a 'Co-ordinated Listening Event', as NDB DXers around the world focus their listening time on one small slice of the NDB spectrum.
An easy challenge in this one is to hear the Sandy Lake (ONT) NDB, 'ZSJ', on 258 kHz. At 500W and a 150' vertical, it's well-heard throughout North America. Listen for its upper-sideband CW identifier (with your receiver in the CW mode) on 258.408 kHz.
Hopefully the propagation will co-operate but the Sun has been doing some strange things once again this week, as Cycle 24 continues its downward trend.
If you are interested in building a system for the new (U.S.) 630m band, the CLE will give you the chance to test out your MF receiving capabilities and compare against what others in your area might be hearing.
When tuning for NDBs, put your receiver in the CW mode and listen for the NDB's CW identifier, repeated every few seconds. Listen for U.S. NDB identifiers approximately 1 kHz higher or lower than the published transmitted frequency since these beacons are modulated with a 1020 Hz tone approximately.
For example, 'AA' in Fargo transmits on 365 kHz and its upper sideband CW identifier is tuned at 366.025 kHz while its lower sideband CW ident can be tuned at 363.946 kHz. Its USB tone is actually 1025 Hz while its LSB tone is 1054 Hz.
Often, one sideband will be much stronger than the other so if you don't hear the first one, try listening on the other sideband.
Canadian NDBs normally have an USB tone only, usually very close to 400 Hz. They also have a long dash (keydown) following the CW identifier.
All NDBs heard in North America will be listed in the RNA database (updated daily) while those heard in Europe may be found in the REU database. Beacons heard outside of these regions will be found in the RWW database.
From CLE organizer Brian Keyte, G3SIA, comes the details:
Here are the brief details for our 230th Co-ordinated Listening Event.
In the last Event we used a very big frequency range - 50 kHz.
This time we have 40 kHz to search in, a wide range again, but without QRM from the DGPS beacons and relatively free of NDBs too, all giving us some 'easy listening'?
Days: Friday 23 March to Monday 26 March
Times: Start and end at midday, your LOCAL TIME
Range: 240.0 - 259.9 kHz plus 420.0 - 439.9 kHz
(BOTH ranges are for ALL listeners)
Please listen for the NDBs whose nominal frequencies are in those ranges, plus any UNIDs you hear there.
The LF range will be very challenging from most of Europe.
The HF range will be very challenging from most of North America and from Australia.
S E Asia has some in both ranges.
First-time CLE logs will also be very welcome from anyone, anywhere.
Send your final CLE log to the List, preferably as a plain text email, not in an attachment, with CLE230 and FINAL at the start of its title.
Please show on EVERY LINE of your log:
# The full Date (or Day no.) and UTC (the day changes at 00:00 UTC).
# kHz (show the beacon's nominal published frequency if you know it)
# The Call Ident.
Other optional details, Location, Distance, etc., go LATER in the same line (or in footnotes). Any extra details about UNIDs, especially strong ones that may be near to you (maybe their approximate direction, etc.) will help us to discover more about them. Please make your log useful to old and new members alike by ALWAYS including your own location and brief details of the equipment and aerial(s) that you were using.
Good listening
Brian
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From: Brian Keyte G3SIA ndbcle'at'gmail.com
Location: Surrey, SE England (CLE co-ordinator)
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If you are interested in some remote listening - maybe due to local difficulties - you could use any one remote receiver for your loggings, stating its location and with the owner’s permission if required. A remote listener may NOT also use another receiver, local or remote, to make further loggings for the same CLE.
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These listening events serve several purposes. They:
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are actually in service and on-the-air so the online database can be kept up-to-date
- determine, worldwide, which beacons are out-of-service or have gone silent since the last CLE covering this range
- will indicate the state of propagation conditions at the various participant locations
- will give you an indication of how well your LF/MF receiving system is working
- give participants a fun yet challenging activity to keep their listening skills honed
*** NEWS FLASH ***
The Yahoo ndblist Group has just been moved to Groups.io and The NDB List Group will now be found there! The very active group is a great place to learn more about the 'Art of NDB DXing' or to meet other listeners in your region. There is a lot of good information available there and new members are always very welcome. As well, you can follow the results of other CLE participants from night to night as propagation is always an active topic of discussion.
You need not be an NDB List member to participate in the CLEs and all reports, no matter how small, are of much value to the organizers.
Remember - 'First-time' logs are always VERY welcome!
Reports may be sent to the NDB List Group or e-mailed to CLE co-ordinator, Brian Keyte (G3SIA), whose address appears above. If you are a member of the group, all final results will also be e-mailed and posted there.
Please ... give the CLE a try ... then let us know what NDB's can be heard from your location! Your report can then be added to the worldwide database to help keep it up-to-date.
Have fun and good hunting!
CLE 228 Results
Last weekend's CLE yielded a mixed-bag of propagation. Friday night's conditions were the best of the three nights here in southwest B.C., but others found things a little different ... such are the vagaries of radio's magic.
All told, I logged 40 NDBs in the specified frequency ranges, with five of the logs being all time 'new catches'. After chasing NDBs regularly since the mid-80's, new ones do not come along too often. It's now fairly clear that as the Sun seriously starts to quiet down once again, propagation on the lower bands, especially the MF and LF part of the spectrum, is quickly improving ... a nice change over the past several years of continuous prop-killing geomagnetic activity during the downhill slide of Cycle 24. It looks as though things will be much better over the next several years as things get even quieter.
The highlight of the weekend was 'TOY' - 260kHz, from Tongoy, Chile. Although on the air for many years, this was the first time I have ever heard it ... on both Friday and Sunday evenings.
Located in coastal central Chile, 'TOY' runs some serious power at 3,000 watts. Along with its large vertical and rural location, I'm surprised I haven't heard it before.
The nearby airstrip in seaside Tongoy is apparently no longer in service and the beacon appears to be an 'enroute' navigational beacon, similar to the high-powered ones in many unpopulated regions of northern Canada.
I have to wonder just how long beacons of this type will be useful enough to maintain as most aero navigation is now reliant on much more accurate GPS, RNAV and RNP systems ... time will tell, but NDBs appear to be going silent with increasing frequency throughout North America.
Another highlight was 500-watter 'QY'-263kHz, located in the heart of Sydney, Nova Scotia and not logged here since 2013. 'QY's large vertical appears to be located in a residential area, but perhaps the beacon was there long before the neighbours moved in. I'll put 'QY' into the receiver's memory as a good indicator of propagation to the east.
Logged using the Perseus SDR and inverted-L tuned to 300 kHz:
27 08:00 260.0 TOY Tongoy, CHL
27 08:00 260.0 ZXS Prince George, BC, CAN
27 08:00 260.0 YSQ Atlin, BC, CAN
27 06:00 260.0 MTH Marathon, FL, USA
27 06:00 260.0 JH Jackson, MS, USA
27 07:00 260.0 SNE Santa Elena, TX, USA
27 08:00 261.0 D6 Fairmont Hot Springs, BC, CAN
27 08:00 263.0 OAY Norton Bay, ALS
27 06:00 263.0 CVM Alton, IL, USA
27 10:00 263.0 3Z Russell, MB, CAN
27 07:00 263.0 BF Scottsbluff, NE, USA
27 06:00 263.0 QY Sydney, NS, CAN
27 10:00 263.0 YBB Kugaaruk, NU, CAN
27 07:00 263.0 ZQT Thunder Bay, ON, CAN
27 11:00 264.0 SZT Sandpoint Apt, ID, USA
27 08:00 264.0 ZPB Sachigo Lake, ON, CAN
27 10:00 266.0 ICK Annette Island, ALS
27 14:00 266.0 XD Edmonton, AB, CAN
27 14:00 266.0 VR Vancouver, BC, CAN
27 05:00 266.0 BZ Bozeman, MT, USA
27 08:00 266.0 GH Fort Good Hope, NT, CAN
27 07:00 266.0 SLE Salem, OR, USA
29 09:00 266.0 PYX Perryton Ochiltree Co Apt, TX, USA
27 05:00 268.0 ZWL Wollaston Lake, SK, CAN
27 05:00 269.0 YK Castlegar, BC, CAN
29 10:00 269.0 BEX Bloomfield, IA, USA
27 06:00 269.0 UDE Delta Station, MB, CAN
27 06:00 269.0 PK Park Rapids, MN, USA
27 14:00 269.0 ZW Teslin, YT, CAN
27 07:00 512.0 HMY Lexington, OK, USA
27 07:00 515.0 OS Columbus, OH, USA
27 06:00 515.0 PN Ponca City, OK, USA
27 07:00 515.0 CL Cresent Beach, WA, USA
27 05:00 516.0 YWA Petawawa, ON, CAN
27 07:00 521.0 ORC Orange City, IA, USA
27 05:00 524.0 MNL Valdez, ALS
27 05:00 524.0 HRD Hardin, TX, USA
27 07:00 525.0 ICW Nenana, ALS
27 05:00 529.0 SQM Sumner Strait, ALS
27 13:00 529.0 FDV Nome, ALS
The logs / reports from all participants may be viewed (once they have been posted) here on the NDB List website.
All told, I logged 40 NDBs in the specified frequency ranges, with five of the logs being all time 'new catches'. After chasing NDBs regularly since the mid-80's, new ones do not come along too often. It's now fairly clear that as the Sun seriously starts to quiet down once again, propagation on the lower bands, especially the MF and LF part of the spectrum, is quickly improving ... a nice change over the past several years of continuous prop-killing geomagnetic activity during the downhill slide of Cycle 24. It looks as though things will be much better over the next several years as things get even quieter.
The highlight of the weekend was 'TOY' - 260kHz, from Tongoy, Chile. Although on the air for many years, this was the first time I have ever heard it ... on both Friday and Sunday evenings.
Located in coastal central Chile, 'TOY' runs some serious power at 3,000 watts. Along with its large vertical and rural location, I'm surprised I haven't heard it before.
Tongoy, Chile courtesy: https://www.google.ca/maps |
The nearby airstrip in seaside Tongoy is apparently no longer in service and the beacon appears to be an 'enroute' navigational beacon, similar to the high-powered ones in many unpopulated regions of northern Canada.
TOY-260 courtesy: https://www.google.ca/maps |
Tongoy Airstrip courtesy: https://www.google.ca/maps |
I have to wonder just how long beacons of this type will be useful enough to maintain as most aero navigation is now reliant on much more accurate GPS, RNAV and RNP systems ... time will tell, but NDBs appear to be going silent with increasing frequency throughout North America.
Another highlight was 500-watter 'QY'-263kHz, located in the heart of Sydney, Nova Scotia and not logged here since 2013. 'QY's large vertical appears to be located in a residential area, but perhaps the beacon was there long before the neighbours moved in. I'll put 'QY' into the receiver's memory as a good indicator of propagation to the east.
QY-263 Sydney, NS courtesy: https://www.google.ca/maps |
Logged using the Perseus SDR and inverted-L tuned to 300 kHz:
27 08:00 260.0 TOY Tongoy, CHL
27 08:00 260.0 ZXS Prince George, BC, CAN
27 08:00 260.0 YSQ Atlin, BC, CAN
27 06:00 260.0 MTH Marathon, FL, USA
27 06:00 260.0 JH Jackson, MS, USA
27 07:00 260.0 SNE Santa Elena, TX, USA
27 08:00 261.0 D6 Fairmont Hot Springs, BC, CAN
27 08:00 263.0 OAY Norton Bay, ALS
27 06:00 263.0 CVM Alton, IL, USA
27 10:00 263.0 3Z Russell, MB, CAN
27 07:00 263.0 BF Scottsbluff, NE, USA
27 06:00 263.0 QY Sydney, NS, CAN
27 10:00 263.0 YBB Kugaaruk, NU, CAN
27 07:00 263.0 ZQT Thunder Bay, ON, CAN
27 11:00 264.0 SZT Sandpoint Apt, ID, USA
27 08:00 264.0 ZPB Sachigo Lake, ON, CAN
27 10:00 266.0 ICK Annette Island, ALS
27 14:00 266.0 XD Edmonton, AB, CAN
27 14:00 266.0 VR Vancouver, BC, CAN
27 05:00 266.0 BZ Bozeman, MT, USA
27 08:00 266.0 GH Fort Good Hope, NT, CAN
27 07:00 266.0 SLE Salem, OR, USA
29 09:00 266.0 PYX Perryton Ochiltree Co Apt, TX, USA
27 05:00 268.0 ZWL Wollaston Lake, SK, CAN
27 05:00 269.0 YK Castlegar, BC, CAN
29 10:00 269.0 BEX Bloomfield, IA, USA
27 06:00 269.0 UDE Delta Station, MB, CAN
27 06:00 269.0 PK Park Rapids, MN, USA
27 14:00 269.0 ZW Teslin, YT, CAN
27 07:00 512.0 HMY Lexington, OK, USA
27 07:00 515.0 OS Columbus, OH, USA
27 06:00 515.0 PN Ponca City, OK, USA
27 07:00 515.0 CL Cresent Beach, WA, USA
27 05:00 516.0 YWA Petawawa, ON, CAN
27 07:00 521.0 ORC Orange City, IA, USA
27 05:00 524.0 MNL Valdez, ALS
27 05:00 524.0 HRD Hardin, TX, USA
27 07:00 525.0 ICW Nenana, ALS
27 05:00 529.0 SQM Sumner Strait, ALS
27 13:00 529.0 FDV Nome, ALS
The logs / reports from all participants may be viewed (once they have been posted) here on the NDB List website.